| --- Day changed Thu Feb 10 2022 | ||
| -!- joerg [~saturn@user/joerg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 00:25 | |
| -!- joerg [~saturn@user/joerg] has joined #maemo-meeting | 00:26 | |
| -!- halftux [~pi@i5E862855.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] | 01:38 | |
| -!- joerg [~saturn@user/joerg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 01:55 | |
| -!- macros_ [~macros@55d4b767.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 04:19 | |
| -!- macros_ [~macros@55d4b968.access.ecotel.net] has joined #maemo-meeting | 04:19 | |
| -!- joerg [~saturn@user/joerg] has joined #maemo-meeting | 05:19 | |
| -!- joerg [~saturn@user/joerg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 07:18 | |
| -!- joerg [~saturn@user/joerg] has joined #maemo-meeting | 07:19 | |
| -!- macros_ [~macros@55d4b968.access.ecotel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 08:23 | |
| -!- ric9k [~ric9k@157.73.124.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #maemo-meeting | 09:06 | |
| -!- ric9k [~ric9k@157.73.124.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Client closed] | 09:38 | |
| sicelo | Leste already fits in the bylaws ... no need for further clarifications. see Bylaws, 2(1). Maemo Leste is Maemo 'proper' - as much as modern software allows :-) | 10:55 |
|---|---|---|
| sicelo | i might be shortsighted, but i think if we wish to add any other projects to the bylaws, we must first contact them and get their agreement | 11:07 |
| sicelo | Bylaws 14(2) is interesting :-) | 11:33 |
| -!- halftux [~halftux@usd-010-112.usd.bessy.de] has joined #maemo-meeting | 11:39 | |
| --- Log closed Thu Feb 10 12:33:20 2022 | ||
| --- Log opened Thu Feb 10 12:33:28 2022 | ||
| -!- juiceme_ [juice@cerebro.liukuma.net] has joined #maemo-meeting | 12:33 | |
| -!- Irssi: #maemo-meeting: Total of 11 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 10 normal] | 12:33 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #maemo-meeting was synced in 49 secs | 12:34 | |
| -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: halftux, juiceme, sixwheeledbeast | 12:41 | |
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: sixwheeledbeast | 12:46 | |
| -!- halftux [~halftux@usd-010-112.usd.bessy.de] has joined #maemo-meeting | 13:27 | |
| -!- macros__ [~macros@p200300dcdf2022001d61816936d7662c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #maemo-meeting | 16:29 | |
| -!- Wizzup [~Wizzup@45.83.235.159] has joined #maemo-meeting | 16:47 | |
| -!- macros__ [~macros@p200300dcdf2022001d61816936d7662c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 17:29 | |
| juiceme_ | Hiya all, is there any estimate how many members will attend the meeting today? | 18:29 |
| reinob | I think if we reach 10 we can consider ourselves happy ;-) | 18:29 |
| juiceme_ | As MCev has currently 20 active members, we need 7 to be present to have quorum (1/3 of members) | 18:30 |
| juiceme_ | 10 is excellent :) | 18:30 |
| joerg | I don't see why we would want to changing bylaws for "add any other projects" - like sicelo I think that's not needed, the bylaws were made to be inclusive | 18:32 |
| sicelo | I'll attend o/ | 18:33 |
| juiceme_ | joerg, did you check your email? I sent Macros's membership application for your review/approval | 18:34 |
| joerg | sorry, didn't check yet | 18:35 |
| joerg | ny IT had a major hickup 12h ago | 18:35 |
| joerg | my* | 18:35 |
| juiceme_ | OK, please check your mail so we might get new member before the meeting. | 18:36 |
| reinob | joerg: OK. If it's not needed then better. I don't know the text by heart.. and the point was rather that today the focus should be, if possible, in getting the legal matters in order. Any further changes, if and as needed, can wait IMHO. | 18:36 |
| joerg | yes | 18:37 |
| joerg | I'm absolutely happy with accepting new active members. | 18:39 |
| joerg | I forgot the detauls about how to accept new members in eV. Is written down in bylaws. maybe somebody alreay reading those may tell | 18:40 |
| joerg | either board or majority of members accepting, I guess, is needed | 18:40 |
| juiceme_ | accepting is dead easy, application is sent to board, and then majority of board members accepts it. (current board ia me, you and falk) | 18:41 |
| joerg | plus membership "in community" for some 6 months? | 18:42 |
| juiceme_ | yes, at least 3 months is needed | 18:42 |
| juiceme_ | basically age of TMO/Maemo account | 18:43 |
| joerg | juiceme_: you "know" that new member from tmo whatever? | 18:43 |
| juiceme_ | by reputation and posts | 18:43 |
| joerg | reasonable contributions, no trilling / spamming? | 18:43 |
| joerg | trolling* | 18:44 |
| juiceme_ | yes | 18:44 |
| joerg | then ok | 18:44 |
| joerg | welcome new member :-) \o/ | 18:44 |
| juiceme_ | Yee!! \o/ | 18:45 |
| reinob | Yippee! \o/ :) | 18:48 |
| joerg | anybody see warfare? | 18:55 |
| joerg | I even tried SMS -> "wrong number". [10 Feb 2022 17:54:59] [CTCP] Received CTCP-VERSION reply from warfare: thelounge v4.3.0 -- https://thelounge.chat/. | 18:56 |
| joerg | [10 Feb 2022 17:56:42] [Whois] warfare is logged in as warfare. | 18:57 |
| joerg | [10 Feb 2022 17:56:43] [Notice] -NickServ- Last seen : (less than two weeks ago) | 18:57 |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+o joerg] by ChanServ | 18:58 | |
| -!- macros__ [~macros@55d4b968.access.ecotel.net] has joined #maemo-meeting | 18:58 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v dos] by joerg | 18:58 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v halftux] by joerg | 18:58 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v juiceme_] by joerg | 18:58 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v macros__] by joerg | 18:58 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v Oksanaa] by joerg | 18:59 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v reinob] by joerg | 18:59 | |
| -!- You're now known as juiceme | 18:59 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v sicelo] by joerg | 18:59 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v sixwheeledbeast] by joerg | 18:59 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v Wizzup] by joerg | 18:59 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v xes] by joerg | 18:59 | |
| +sixwheeledbeast | o/ | 18:59 |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [-o joerg] by ChanServ | 19:00 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+o joerg] by ChanServ | 19:01 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v joerg] by joerg | 19:01 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [-o joerg] by ChanServ | 19:01 | |
| +joerg | hi sixwheeledbeast | 19:01 |
| +joerg | welcome macros__ | 19:01 |
| +joerg | afk, need do shopping | 19:02 |
| +juiceme | ya, see you in 2 hours | 19:02 |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+o juiceme] by ChanServ | 19:03 | |
| +macros__ | Hello :) | 19:04 |
| @juiceme | hi macros__ and welcome to the community! | 19:06 |
| * juiceme wawes | 19:06 | |
| +halftux | hi and welcome macros | 19:06 |
| +joerg | somebody please provide a summary what needs to be done today. In channel | 19:09 |
| +halftux | I need to logout and go home to login again cya later | 19:09 |
| -!- halftux [~halftux@usd-010-112.usd.bessy.de] has left #maemo-meeting [] | 19:09 | |
| @juiceme | 1. Take roster | 19:11 |
| @juiceme | 2. Elect chair and secretary for meeting | 19:11 |
| @juiceme | 3. I'll present the accounts | 19:11 |
| @juiceme | 4. election of the board | 19:11 |
| @juiceme | 5. AOB | 19:11 |
| -!- halftux [~pi@i5E86285E.versanet.de] has joined #maemo-meeting | 19:30 | |
| +joerg | please provide links to the most accurate and up to date info about current situation, bylaws etc. I found http://wiki.maemo.org/MaemoCommunity_eV and that seems not completely up to date any more? | 19:47 |
| halftux | need voice again plz | 19:49 |
| halftux | I don't know any other maybe it wasn't updated at all. | 19:51 |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+o joerg] by ChanServ | 19:51 | |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v halftux] by joerg | 19:52 | |
| @joerg | I guess +V not needed to distinguish members from the drop-in audience ;-) | 19:54 |
| +halftux | joerg, maybe here are some changes https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=97086 | 20:06 |
| -!- mode/#maemo-meeting [-o joerg] by ChanServ | 20:10 | |
| +joerg | please re-read the letters, regarding what actually needs to be done. Starting at | 20:17 |
| +joerg | > On 2/18/21 3:25 PM, Christian Weniger wrote: | 20:17 |
| +joerg | >> Hi Juice, could you write/send the following e-mail as fast as | 20:17 |
| +joerg | >> possible to the AG Kaiserslautern with our offical Maemo e-mail | 20:17 |
| +joerg | >> account please | 20:17 |
| +joerg | this is way more intricate than just "elect new board" | 20:18 |
| +joerg | at very least it needs proper documentation, and for actually elöecting a new board we need to provide a proper invitation to this general assembly which the AG Kaiserslautern requires for accepting the whole thing | 20:20 |
| +macros__ | A German court once ruled that a minimal time of 1 week has to be between invitation and an assembly | 20:24 |
| +reinob | We could argue that we had to organize this urgently (our fault being late, but the Zwangsgeldandrohung came a few days ago). | 20:25 |
| +reinob | IIRC we need "Vorlage des Protokolls der Mitgliederversammlung, in der eine Abberufung erfolgt ist, nebst Einladungsschreiben erfolgen." | 20:25 |
| +halftux | I would say juice was writing an invitation that was ok. Now we need somebody who is doing a protocol of the meeting. Then we should vote a new board. And two new voted board members need to go to a notary. And maybe we should have a list with all members. | 20:25 |
| +reinob | problem is obviously Gido is not there and chemist is also AWOL. But we can formally do the Abberufung thing, I guess. | 20:26 |
| +macros__ | As long as nobody complains I guess a shorter time should be ok. | 20:27 |
| +joerg | we need to evaluate what is the concern of AG Kaiserslautern and what would be the easiest way to accommodate/satisfy those | 20:27 |
| +reinob | Right. They need a proper board being registered. And this is something we could decide + minute today. They will at least have to acknowledge that we're trying to comply. | 20:28 |
| +joerg | basically AG is checking if our eV is acting according to own bylaws. << read that twice and think about it, what it implies and what's resulting from that... or should result | 20:28 |
| +halftux | there was no notary proof from change of the board so juice is the only board member. They are waiting for the change with falk and you joerg | 20:28 |
| +halftux | but to vote and make a new board is ok and then tell them | 20:29 |
| +joerg | I'm not available anymore since obviously I can't cope with the duty | 20:29 |
| +joerg | Falk is MIA since months | 20:30 |
| +halftux | yes we need to nominate other people and vote | 20:30 |
| -!- nonsuch [~koivusaar@dk47dfyyyyyyyyyyyyyyt-3.rev.dnainternet.fi] has joined #maemo-meeting | 20:32 | |
| +halftux | so first we need an election leader who can't be a candidate | 20:32 |
| +joerg | just saying. It's difficult to keep an organizational structure like an eV working and alive weh that structure defines itself as consisting of at least 6 persons in management/administration, while the whole entity only consists of barely more than those 6 persons | 20:32 |
| +halftux | thats true | 20:32 |
| +joerg | maemo council had not been elected since dunnowhen | 20:34 |
| +reinob | but the only alternative is to drop the eV, and this would have also other negative consequences. so as long as we have 3+3 people we should be (absurdly) fine. | 20:34 |
| +joerg | that's THE question. Is it _really_ the only alternative? | 20:34 |
| nonsuch | Lurking... is it 20:00 yet in Germany? | 20:34 |
| +reinob | not yet, but whatever can be clarified before 20:00. if at all. | 20:35 |
| +macros__ | 19:35 here | 20:35 |
| +joerg | cmd: date >Thu Feb 10 19:35:16 CET 2022 | 20:35 |
| +halftux | A General Assembly has to be called as well if it is mandated by the association's interests , or if at least one third of the active members of the association request so in writing or electronically or by mail giving its purpose and reasons. | 20:36 |
| +halftux | Otherwise once in a year 4 weeks before | 20:37 |
| +joerg | from bylaws I read that when members of board quit, the remaining board members could either say "no problem now we're only 2 (or 1)" *OR* *they* could nominate a replacement from community to serve as board member until board eventually gets newly elected | 20:37 |
| +joerg | MC eV told AG Kaiserslautern "we had a change in board, there are 2 members that quit and there are two new members" and so now AG Kaiserslautern asks for formal approval of that. I wonder if any such approval is needed and what exactly it has to look like. Maybe a simple letter from the remaining board with a statement like "we hereby approve we don't elect any replacement board memebers and will continue as is (only 1 member) until general assembly | 20:42 |
| +joerg | calls for a new election of board" could suffice? | 20:42 |
| +reinob | we could try that, if Juice agrees he could send that e-mail refering to chapter (7)(6) "" | 20:43 |
| +reinob | "Beim Ausscheiden von einzelnen Vorstandsmitgliedern können die Aufgaben des ausgeschiedenen Vorstandsmitglieds von den verbliebenen Vorstandsmitgliedern übernommen werden, sofern diese zustimmen. Alternativ kann sich der Vorstand bis zur nächsten regulären Wahl durch Vorstandsbeschluss aus der Reihe der aktiven Mitglieder ergänzen." | 20:43 |
| +joerg | ^^^ | 20:44 |
| +reinob | if they swallow that, we have some peace, and can organize a regular GA with time, etc. | 20:44 |
| +macros__ | That sounds like a perfect solution | 20:44 |
| +reinob | if they don't, we can already and speculatively plan/ask who'd volunteer to be elected as board. to be ready. | 20:44 |
| +joerg | wait please, I gonna call that lady from AG Kaiserslautern tomorrow or Monday and ask explain the situation to her and ask her if we could handle this in a way so she is happy and we actually can succeed to do so | 20:46 |
| +joerg | reinob: excellent | 20:46 |
| +reinob | joerg: excellent, too! :) | 20:46 |
| -!- eekkelund [~eekkelund@user/eekkelund] has joined #maemo-meeting | 20:48 | |
| +halftux | hope this will work but I asked last year what we should do. | 20:48 |
| +joerg | in my book the eV is not designed to cope with this "maintenance mode" situation. We should try to find out if there's a "standby mode" for an eV | 20:49 |
| +reinob | halftux: From your e-mail of 04.02.2021 when you called the Amtsgericht "For the notary certified papers we need two persons from the board who need to sign and go to a notary. (§7.3 ...Any two of these three Board members together are authorized to fully represent the association.)" | 20:50 |
| +reinob | don't know how the "two persons" can work in our current case :( | 20:51 |
| +halftux | we need to vote them first | 20:51 |
| +reinob | ah OK, so that's for the new board, when there's a new board :) | 20:52 |
| +halftux | but they were thinking that we got already 3 juice, falk and joerg and they wanted a notary proof of the changes | 20:52 |
| +halftux | and maybe Schiller told them that he left | 20:52 |
| +joerg | this situation is based on a lot of misconceptions. Better sort it radically that try to follow a path based on false assumptions | 20:54 |
| +joerg | than* | 20:54 |
| +reinob | Right. So they should know that this information is not correct anymore (re. Falk and Jörg), so we stay with Juice as only board member, as per our own Satzung | 20:54 |
| +joerg | exactly | 20:54 |
| +joerg | and since we seem to have quorum(? word) today for GA, we could decide and approve a change of bylaws that simply eliminates any mandatory time schedule for a new election | 20:55 |
| +reinob | \o/ | 20:56 |
| -!- darkstar_ [~darkstar@i59F4B6EC.versanet.de] has joined #maemo-meeting | 20:56 | |
| -!- darkstar_ [~darkstar@i59F4B6EC.versanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] | 20:57 | |
| +reinob | but that's not in the agenda.. so attorney-me says no (and no, I'm not an attorney). plus formal invitation way in advance, etc. | 20:57 |
| +joerg | yes | 20:58 |
| -!- Fellfrosch [~darkstar@i59F4B6EC.versanet.de] has joined #maemo-meeting | 20:58 | |
| +joerg | so decide to decide in due course, with appropriate invitation and all | 20:58 |
| @juiceme | Hi again | 21:00 |
| +reinob | hey | 21:00 |
| nonsuch | hey | 21:00 |
| +joerg | first of all we need to avoid that 600.- fine. That's a nogo. So probably send whatever statement in that topic to AG Kaiserslautern, stating "all ok" | 21:00 |
| @juiceme | I just read back the log a bit, on discussion about the issues what the magistrate really wants | 21:01 |
| @juiceme | joerg yes | 21:01 |
| +halftux | Fellfrosch applied 15min ago at board@maemo.org for membership | 21:01 |
| +reinob | great! welcome! :) | 21:01 |
| Fellfrosch | Hi there | 21:01 |
| +halftux | yeah welcome :-) | 21:02 |
| +joerg | wow, TWO new members | 21:02 |
| @juiceme | Fellfrosch, hi. | 21:02 |
| * Oksanaa waves sleepily | 21:02 | |
| -!- eLtMosen [~eLtMosen@p200300cc172131002526c6fafbc530a0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:02 | |
| +joerg | hi Fellfrosch | 21:02 |
| Fellfrosch | I have no clue from anything but if I cn help with membership.... | 21:02 |
| eLtMosen | Hi all <3 | 21:02 |
| +joerg | moin Oksanaa :-) | 21:02 |
| @juiceme | Fellfrosch, I have not received your application yet? | 21:02 |
| +Oksanaa | Good morning joerg :-) | 21:02 |
| +joerg | afk for 10 minutes, sorry | 21:03 |
| @juiceme | Oksanaa, ah yes, morning down there :) | 21:03 |
| @juiceme | eLtMosen, hi! | 21:03 |
| Fellfrosch | Let me have a look. if there is something fishy with my mail | 21:03 |
| eLtMosen | Heya juiceme | 21:03 |
| +sicelo | \o | 21:04 |
| @juiceme | Fellfrosch did you send it to my pwesonal mail or board@maemo.org | 21:04 |
| Fellfrosch | to board@maemo.org | 21:04 |
| @juiceme | that should forward to me and joerg | 21:04 |
| eLtMosen | Yay sicelo!! | 21:04 |
| Fellfrosch | Sent it at 19:43 | 21:04 |
| +joerg | I don't receive any maemo emails anymore, I'm not in the alias of any maemo mail | 21:05 |
| Fellfrosch | and its out of my mailbox successfully | 21:05 |
| @juiceme | ah, could you resend it to juice@swagman.org | 21:05 |
| Fellfrosch | sure | 21:05 |
| +joerg | at least I think so | 21:05 |
| @juiceme | possibly there is something awry at the maemo mail bouncer | 21:05 |
| +reinob | in any case I'd say that Fellfrosch already counts as active member, as we have all seen that he sent the form in due time.. | 21:06 |
| @juiceme | reinob +1 | 21:06 |
| eLtMosen | +1 | 21:06 |
| Fellfrosch | Mail sent to juice@swagman.org | 21:07 |
| +reinob | Quorum looks like no problem, do we need to count? | 21:08 |
| @juiceme | yes, lets proceed with the meeting. | 21:08 |
| nonsuch | Do I count, as a passive member? | 21:08 |
| @juiceme | joerg, as the chairman of the board, would you like to say some opening words or shall I? | 21:08 |
| @juiceme | nonsuch, unfortunately not in roster | 21:09 |
| +sicelo | he's afk for a short wile (10 mins he said) | 21:09 |
| nonsuch | that's fine - just lurking | 21:09 |
| @juiceme | Fellfrosch, still no mail in my inbox :O | 21:10 |
| +sicelo | juiceme: so i guess you are in charge :-) | 21:10 |
| +reinob | formally juiceme is the only board member, so in my book he's the chairman too? (after all, that's our argument towards Kaiserslautern, isn't it?) | 21:10 |
| @juiceme | right, so I'll continue then. | 21:10 |
| @juiceme | Thank you all members of the Maemo Community e.V. | 21:11 |
| @juiceme | It is a pleasure to see so many of you here today, even though the invitation was a bit late | 21:11 |
| -!- rZr [~rzr@ynh.rzr.cloudns.org] has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:12 | |
| rZr | hi sorry i am late in | 21:12 |
| Fellfrosch | That'S quite strange. Download it from here: https://tr8mrau8cqbpffws.myfritz.net/s/WwTQ7XcLTa7GeJ5 | 21:12 |
| @juiceme | it has been a while since we held the last General Meeting, and about a high time to do so | 21:12 |
| rZr | I will mostly listen because my involvment in maemo faded away over years | 21:12 |
| rZr | i still remember those good times of council | 21:13 |
| @juiceme | this meeting was called on last Wednesday, 02.02.2022 even though the actual agenda was presented later but I am assured the meeting was thus announced a full week and one day prior to the meeting | 21:14 |
| @juiceme | on the rules of the association, a 1/3 of the members must be present to have quorum. | 21:15 |
| +reinob | we can note for the record that all members had been informed *and* most even attended.. | 21:15 |
| @juiceme | I would like to do call of names now. | 21:15 |
| +Oksanaa | juiceme: Same could be said about a Coding Competition ;-) But perhaps, that's for later, when Maemo 7 Leste reaches beta state? Glad Photo Competition is alive :-) | 21:15 |
| @juiceme | Please members, state your names for the IRC record | 21:16 |
| +sicelo | sicelo \o | 21:16 |
| * rZr phil coval _o/ | 21:16 | |
| +reinob | Bernardo Reino | 21:16 |
| eLtMosen | mosen / Timo Könnecke | 21:16 |
| +halftux | halftux christian weniger \o | 21:16 |
| +Oksanaa | Wikiwide: Oksana A. Tkachenko | 21:16 |
| +macros__ | Roger Rösch \o | 21:16 |
| @juiceme | juiceme, Jussi Ohenoja O/ | 21:16 |
| +joerg | ok, I'm back | 21:16 |
| eekkelund | eekkelund: eetu kahelin | 21:16 |
| Fellfrosch | Fellfrosch, Ulrich Müller | 21:17 |
| +sicelo | oh, legal names? :-) Sicelo Mhlongo | 21:17 |
| +joerg | joerg reisenweber | 21:18 |
| @juiceme | Thank you all, I count 12 members present. | 21:19 |
| -!- freemangordon [~ivo@46.249.74.23] has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:19 | |
| +joerg | hi freemangordon | 21:19 |
| freemangordon | Hi there! | 21:20 |
| +halftux | welcome | 21:20 |
| @juiceme | Our member list is 22 including our newest members macros and fellfrosch | 21:20 |
| +reinob | freemangordon \o/ | 21:20 |
| @juiceme | this means that the meeting is legal and quorum. | 21:21 |
| +joerg | juiceme: where is that list kept and accessible? | 21:21 |
| +Oksanaa | juiceme: I counted 11 people during name roll? Did you count sicelo twice? | 21:21 |
| +reinob | 11 + Fellfrosch, I presume | 21:21 |
| +halftux | I guess himself | 21:21 |
| @juiceme | Names are on the maemo wiki pages, plus I have a full member list | 21:22 |
| +joerg | thanks | 21:22 |
| +halftux | I am not at wiki | 21:22 |
| @juiceme | yes the wikipage might not be up to date | 21:22 |
| +reinob | oh, so it's really 11, I think. | 21:23 |
| +Oksanaa | 1. Sicelo; 2. phil; 3. Bernardo; 4. Timo; 5. Christian; 6. Oksana; 7. Roger; 8. Jussi; 9.Eetu; 10. Ulrich; 11. Joerg | 21:24 |
| +Oksanaa | Sorry for any misprints | 21:24 |
| @juiceme | oksanaa, you are correct, it is 11 (rZr +reinob eLtMosen +halftux +Oksanaa +macros__ @juiceme eekkelund Fellfrosch +sicelo +joerg) | 21:24 |
| +reinob | +1, I mean, not mathematically :) | 21:24 |
| @juiceme | but it is still good. | 21:24 |
| @juiceme | allright, so lets continue hammering the points in. | 21:25 |
| +joerg | I read comments about "drop MC eV" - let me state this isn't a reasonable nor the simplest or smartest option | 21:26 |
| @juiceme | We need to appoint chair and secretary for this meeting | 21:26 |
| +Oksanaa | joerg: Agree. | 21:26 |
| @juiceme | joerg +1 | 21:26 |
| +reinob | joerg: I agree, even if I think I said that myself. Just covering all bases.. | 21:26 |
| +Oksanaa | juiceme: What do chair and secretary do? | 21:26 |
| @juiceme | so, any takers for the meeting chair? | 21:26 |
| @juiceme | the chairman conducts the meeting. | 21:27 |
| +Oksanaa | Chairman takes meeting notes? | 21:27 |
| @juiceme | we only have few official poinst anyway | 21:27 |
| +joerg | secretary does | 21:27 |
| @juiceme | secretary takes notes | 21:27 |
| rZr | c'mon we're just 11 , just go on :) | 21:27 |
| +joerg | chairman = moderator | 21:27 |
| rZr | for notes | 21:27 |
| rZr | just use a pad | 21:27 |
| @juiceme | or actually the irclog is the notes, but secretary should be someone who knows german | 21:28 |
| +joerg | I can provide full chanlog FWIW | 21:28 |
| @juiceme | we need to write up meeting minutes in english and german | 21:28 |
| +reinob | I can translate into German, with a little help of my children :) | 21:28 |
| rZr | ich abe dutch gerlernt und alles vergessen | 21:28 |
| rZr | ~~~ | 21:28 |
| +reinob | ich hab nix gelernt aber auch nix vergessen :) | 21:29 |
| eLtMosen | I'll do the notes gladly | 21:29 |
| +reinob | +1 | 21:29 |
| +joerg | so I will do the "provide irc chanlog" but no further edits | 21:29 |
| +joerg | eLtMosen: I'll send you a link for the irclog | 21:30 |
| @juiceme | so there have been more than one volunter for the secretary, any for chair? | 21:30 |
| eLtMosen | <3 | 21:30 |
| * sicelo raises his hand for chairman, if no other takers. no german-foo at all though :-) | 21:30 | |
| +reinob | +1 for mosen and sicelo! | 21:30 |
| @juiceme | OK, I second Sicelo for chairman | 21:30 |
| +halftux | +1 | 21:31 |
| @juiceme | and mosen for secretary | 21:31 |
| eLtMosen | Standing by as translator ;) +sicelo | 21:31 |
| +macros__ | +1 from me | 21:31 |
| +Oksanaa | +1 | 21:31 |
| eekkelund | +1 | 21:31 |
| Fellfrosch | +1 | 21:31 |
| +sicelo | Looking at agenda, seems we've just covered #1 & #2. | 21:32 |
| @juiceme | OK, sicelo, I'll hand over to you. If you have the invitation email handy, you will now start from the point 3.) | 21:32 |
| @juiceme | sicelo yes! | 21:32 |
| +sicelo | so we're doing #3 now - juiceme will present the accounts | 21:32 |
| @juiceme | thank you, mr chairman. | 21:32 |
| @juiceme | I have stored the account reports in web. | 21:33 |
| @juiceme | http://www.swagman.org/juice/MCeV_treasurers_report_accounts_2021.pdf | 21:33 |
| @juiceme | http://www.swagman.org/juice/MCeV_treasurers_report_2021.pdf | 21:33 |
| +reinob | Yesterday I have audited the accounts and the report and confirmed that it all sums up just fine. | 21:33 |
| @juiceme | please download the documents and read them, if you have not done yet so. | 21:34 |
| @juiceme | yes, I asked for auditors, and got 4 replies | 21:34 |
| +sicelo | thanks reinob :-) | 21:34 |
| @juiceme | reinob was generous enough to return to me a signed copy of the pdf | 21:35 |
| +reinob | (in case the lady in Kaiserslautern needs that too! :) | 21:35 |
| +joerg | I approve correctness of accounts | 21:35 |
| +halftux | For me it looks correct too. | 21:36 |
| +macros__ | I notice the banking fees are quite high at 200€ per year. How comes? | 21:37 |
| @juiceme | to give a quick overview, we had just bank expenses and the annual server hosting fee on the debet side, and 4 donations on the debet side | 21:37 |
| +reinob | Deutsche Bank. But I'd expect similar fees for such legal accounts from other banks.. | 21:37 |
| @juiceme | business account at DB costs about 17 eur/month | 21:38 |
| +halftux | some are only half | 21:38 |
| @juiceme | Handelsbanken has 11 eur/month | 21:38 |
| +halftux | and there is one without fees Deutsch Skatbank | 21:38 |
| Fellfrosch | macros because of the greed of the banks ;) | 21:38 |
| @juiceme | DB is costly but changing tha bank is a real hassle | 21:38 |
| * Oksanaa nods - I see 47.7 BusinessPlus account fee every three months | 21:38 | |
| @juiceme | to get that one established required a crazy amount of red tape | 21:39 |
| @juiceme | I would not like to do it again | 21:39 |
| +macros__ | ok so postpone that to a date when we do not have more urgent issues at hand | 21:39 |
| @juiceme | however it might be that things could be easier with other banks | 21:39 |
| @juiceme | macros +1 | 21:40 |
| +joerg | I guess a BusinessPlus account is needed to have multiple authorized owners of the account | 21:40 |
| @juiceme | yes | 21:40 |
| +reinob | for the next meeting if anyone can suggest a bank *and* how to deal with the change.. | 21:40 |
| @juiceme | and they charge for all those nice things tey could provide that we don't use :( | 21:40 |
| +joerg | ohnoes | 21:40 |
| +joerg | please avoid changing stuff by all means | 21:41 |
| @juiceme | but in any case our financial status is quite stable | 21:41 |
| Fellfrosch | can postpone that discussion as suggested. | 21:41 |
| +joerg | please do | 21:41 |
| * Oksanaa nods | 21:41 | |
| +joerg | I seen the fees yesterday and postponed comments to ... $nexttimeImBored | 21:42 |
| @juiceme | we have some reserves to arrange some event or competition if we'd like to, and I am sure we will be able to get donations to balance | 21:42 |
| eLtMosen | Checked and approve! | 21:42 |
| @juiceme | so there, mr chairman. | 21:43 |
| +sicelo | thanks juiceme for preparing and presenting the financial report, and reinob for auditing. | 21:43 |
| +joerg | could we just officially approve accounts already? | 21:43 |
| @juiceme | Any quuestions about the accounts? | 21:43 |
| +joerg | no | 21:43 |
| @juiceme | thanks | 21:43 |
| +sicelo | no questions from me either. i approve :-) | 21:43 |
| +sicelo | means we can move on to #4 - election of new board of directors | 21:44 |
| * Oksanaa nods | 21:44 | |
| +joerg | I think we should _not_ do that right now | 21:44 |
| +Oksanaa | :? | 21:44 |
| @juiceme | joerg, are you sure? | 21:44 |
| +joerg | unless juiceme insists | 21:44 |
| @juiceme | well as you stated earlier, falk is MIA | 21:45 |
| +reinob | juiceme: the thing is, we're not sure if electing a new board now would make things more complicated than they are. if we can defer that and keep you as sole board member, we can avoid having to pay the fine, keep the eV alive and *then* prepare a further assembly where we elect the board members. | 21:46 |
| +sicelo | i guess our legal situation is a bit precarious, yes | 21:46 |
| @juiceme | would that be acceptable to AG Kaiserlautern? | 21:46 |
| * Oksanaa doesn't speak legalese. So whatever works. | 21:46 | |
| +sicelo | joerg: i think you offered to check for us tomorrow or monday? or that's about something else? | 21:46 |
| @juiceme | I also am not sure about german legalese? | 21:46 |
| +reinob | assuming that the magistrat is OK with that. Otherwise we'd have to prepare the next assembly as soon as the bylaws allow.. | 21:46 |
| +joerg | juiceme: I'm pretty sure it would | 21:46 |
| +Oksanaa | reinob: Would probably take a week, at least - to issue proper meeting notice? | 21:47 |
| +joerg | sicelo: yes, I will try to reach the lady at AG Kaiserslautern until Tuesday and come back with results | 21:47 |
| +reinob | we could maybe "simulate" the election, so we know if there are candidates, and if yes, how many.. | 21:47 |
| +joerg | Oksanaa: yep | 21:48 |
| +reinob | "Die aktive Mitgliederversammlung ist einmal jährlich vom Vorstandsrat unter Einhaltung einer Einladungsfrist von vier Wochen durch schriftliche bzw. elektronische Bekanntgabe auf maemo.org und per email unter Angabe der Tagesordnung einzuberufen und wird durch diesen oder einen Vertreter geleitet. Anträge zur Hauptversammlung sind spätestens eine Woche vorher beim Vorstandsrat einzureichen." | 21:49 |
| +reinob | so 4 weeks in advance, in writing. | 21:49 |
| +sicelo | so seems there are currently three options on the table: 1. wait and hear from joerg, | 21:49 |
| +sicelo | 2. simulate | 21:49 |
| +reinob | (for a proper bullet-proof general assembly) | 21:49 |
| +sicelo | 3. elect right away :-) | 21:49 |
| +joerg | we could ask right now who's willing to accept board duty (and don't underestimate that duty, ask juiceme) | 21:49 |
| +macros__ | Is it possible to see the correspondence from the AG Kaiserslautern so I get a better idea of their demands? (parts of it which contain no sensitive information) | 21:49 |
| +reinob | [1] + [2] can go together | 21:49 |
| +Oksanaa | macros__: Good point. I have already forgotten what was the possible fine about. | 21:50 |
| +joerg | I'm not sure if it's the right thing to publish the email without allowance from all participants in that dialog. However I would suggest any of those participants provides a pastebin URL private to those interested | 21:51 |
| rZr | brb | 21:51 |
| +reinob | I could paste here what Juice forwarded. AFAICT there's nothing private/personal. | 21:52 |
| +halftux | I am fine | 21:52 |
| +joerg | up to you, I pondered it and decided I leave it to those who were writing there | 21:52 |
| +joerg | for any parts I added, feel free to "publish" them | 21:53 |
| +reinob | I mean only the letter from Kaiserslautern, the "als Vorstandsmitglied des Vereins „Maemo Community e.V.“ werden Sie hiermit" | 21:53 |
| +reinob | unter Androhung eines Zwangsgeldes von 600,- EUR | 21:53 |
| +reinob | gemäß §§ 67, 71, 77 und 78 BGB sowie den §§ 388 ff FamFG aufgeforder | 21:53 |
| +reinob | shit, sorry, bad pasting due to the quotes.. | 21:54 |
| +sicelo | :) | 21:54 |
| +reinob | hopefully it worked: https://pastebin.com/iQubU5e1 | 21:54 |
| +macros__ | Thank you | 21:55 |
| +reinob | here a translation (thanks, deepl! :) https://pastebin.com/MzvZgbnM | 21:56 |
| +sicelo | which route are we taking regarding the current point - election of board? seems most are in favor of waiting, but shall we see if there are any interested takers? | 21:56 |
| @juiceme | reinob thanks | 21:56 |
| +halftux | and we will do a veto | 21:56 |
| @juiceme | I would like to do a test voting | 21:56 |
| +reinob | a veto or a vote? | 21:56 |
| +halftux | must be in a written form maybe after calling them | 21:56 |
| +halftux | a veto for the fine | 21:57 |
| @juiceme | or at least a call on the roles, to see interest | 21:57 |
| @juiceme | so how about it? | 21:57 |
| Fellfrosch | a veto often means to pay a handling charge | 21:57 |
| +sicelo | okay. so we need 3 or more board members, taken from active members :-) | 21:58 |
| +sicelo | juiceme: +1 | 21:58 |
| +Oksanaa | Sounds like trouble > The notification must be made together with another member of the Board of Management < As for Chairman and Deputy Chairman, secretary=Deputy Chairman, right? | 21:58 |
| +reinob | I'd suggest: 1. we do a call for interest (aka "simulated election"). 2. Jörg contacts Kaiserslautern and tries to clear things up. If [2] fails we make the veto/appeal and prepare a new meeting as fast as possible to elect new board. | 21:59 |
| +Oksanaa | And what is that about resignation of previous Chairman and Deputy Chairman? | 21:59 |
| +joerg | halftux: please don't | 22:00 |
| @juiceme | reinob +1 | 22:00 |
| +joerg | there's no reasonable argument to veto that fine, instead of simply providing a solution satisfying the AG KL | 22:00 |
| @juiceme | in any case if we here decice the nominees for the board positions, it is easier to conduct the meeting next time | 22:01 |
| +sicelo | ok. i don't see/hear any objections to reinob's suggestion. i would say let's do it right now | 22:01 |
| +Oksanaa | What is the current legal state/membership of Board of Management? > The notification must be made together with another member of the Board of Management < | 22:02 |
| @juiceme | sicelo, thank you | 22:02 |
| +reinob | it's the timing. they gave us a deadline of 4 weeks, so we have less than 3 weeks left. and a proper GA requires at least 4 weeks advance. | 22:02 |
| +sicelo | then we can discuss any further issues arising from the letter in the AOB section. I'm afraid our meeting will end up without direction :) | 22:02 |
| * joerg asks for formally determining current state of board: Juiceme is only member after $whoever left for $whatever reasons - check if any proof for those quits can be provided to AG KL | 22:02 | |
| +Oksanaa | +1 joerg: Proof would be nice | 22:03 |
| @juiceme | tecnically there are 2 board members present, me and joerg. the thing is that I am the only one registered | 22:03 |
| +joerg | I don't consider myself a board member anymore | 22:03 |
| +sicelo | perhaps we can ask those ex-board members to assist with this. even though they left, perhaps they might be willing to facilitate this part (assuming it's possible to contact them somehow) | 22:03 |
| +sicelo | i.e. assist with putting their resignation in writing in a formal way | 22:04 |
| @juiceme | we have not been able to reach them :( | 22:04 |
| +joerg | you might think of my satate as "I resigned a 2 years ago, with accepting to fulfil some duties until the situation gets sorted" | 22:04 |
| +joerg | or what sicelo just wrote# | 22:05 |
| +reinob | AFAIK we have *on record* Schiller (chemist), Griese (Win7Mac) and Jussi (juiceme). Griese is dead and Schiller "has left the board" (in the court's own words). | 22:05 |
| -!- low_ [~Lov_d`Hir@ip4d141888.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #maemo-meeting | 22:06 | |
| +Oksanaa | reinob: Griese is dead. Anything like death certificate available? | 22:06 |
| +joerg | so could we simply approvwe that as the current state of situation? | 22:06 |
| @juiceme | low, welcome | 22:06 |
| +reinob | Yes. They then asked to confirm "Newly entered Falk Stern and Jörg Reisenweber" which we simply can ignore, as this does not reflect the current intention anymore. | 22:06 |
| low_ | hi good evening. sorry for being late | 22:07 |
| +reinob | (AFAICT anyway) | 22:07 |
| +joerg | YES!!! :-() | 22:07 |
| +joerg | :-) | 22:07 |
| +macros__ | To communicate the current state two board members have to be present, as the "Articles of Association (Bylaws) / Satzung" says | 22:07 |
| +halftux | it would be interesting to know who gave them the information we can say it was wrong information | 22:07 |
| +halftux | no new board since then | 22:07 |
| +reinob | halftux: right. It's not on record, and they are the record-people, so there's no place for speculation! | 22:08 |
| @juiceme | can we challenge them on that basis? | 22:08 |
| Fellfrosch | Looks like there was a lot of trouble in the past. And a lot of things have been just missed (Win7Mac has died long time ago as I remember correctly). | 22:08 |
| +sicelo | i'm skeptical about that one - i think we're also not in a position strong enough to do it that way ... but yes, ianal. i like joerg's approach myself | 22:09 |
| low_ | we should not go for confrontation when there is nothing to win from it. | 22:09 |
| +sicelo | +1 | 22:09 |
| low_ | also information they have will not go away, no matter where it came from | 22:10 |
| +halftux | yes first action is to call and talk and see | 22:10 |
| +joerg | according to letter from AG KL, a protocol of this very meeting accepting the common knowledge about "council consists of one member: juiceme . Two have left" | 22:10 |
| +Oksanaa | Re > Yes. They then asked to confirm "Newly entered Falk Stern and Jörg Reisenweber" which we simply can ignore, as this does not reflect the current intention anymore. < So we have to find chemist (to either get resignation, or to help out juiceme), and confirm either joerg as board member (to help juiceme) or Falk Stern as board member? | 22:11 |
| +reinob | absolutely. A phone call explaining the situation, and our interpretation of the bylaws according to which Juice is the one and only board member, and rightly so (chapter 7-6) should be OK for them. They cannot have anything against it. | 22:11 |
| eLtMosen | Ok, afaiu, according to our statutes we are incapacitated. | 22:11 |
| eLtMosen | In that case we can elect a Emergency Board | 22:12 |
| +reinob | "Diese Veränderung in der Vorstandschaft ist durch den neuen Vorstand in | 22:12 |
| +reinob | deutscher Sprache in öffentlich beglaubigter Form zum Vereinsregister | 22:12 |
| +macros__ | Yes $7 (6) of the bylaws is the solution. This allows juiceme as member of the board to appoint any member as second member of the board intermediately. And they can then fullful the demands. (give an update on the current state) | 22:12 |
| +joerg | to my knowledge there is no bylaws statement that mandates at least 2 board members | 22:12 |
| +reinob | anzumelden." we don't need chemist for that, only the new board, and that's Jussi alone. | 22:12 |
| low_ | chemist is my brother, if you need anything you can ask me i can be a proxy if you need. | 22:12 |
| +macros__ | §7 (3) | 22:12 |
| eLtMosen | If the association is unable to act because it does not have enough board members who are authorized to represent the association externally in accordance with Section 26 of the German Civil Code (BGB). This can happen if one or more board members can no longer perform their duties due to death, incapacity, removal, resignation, expiry of office, illness or prolonged absence. | 22:12 |
| +macros__ | (3) Der Vorstand wählt aus seiner Mitte einen Vorsitzenden und zwei Stellvertreter. Hiervon sind jeweils zwei gemeinsam zur Vertretung des Vereins berechtigt. | 22:13 |
| +sicelo | low_: wow! | 22:13 |
| +reinob | low_: that is interesting! I don't think I know you :) | 22:13 |
| -!- gry [~gry@botters/gry] has joined #maemo-meeting | 22:13 | |
| +joerg | I think eLtMosen is up to sth | 22:15 |
| +Oksanaa | low_ : If legalities can be satisfied that chemist gives you permission to act in his place... | 22:15 |
| +Oksanaa | Then low_ could help juiceme in place of second Board Member? | 22:15 |
| @juiceme | low, are you in contact with Rudiger? Last I know he was somewhere far south from europe...? | 22:16 |
| +joerg | Oksanaa: please, this isn't needed right now | 22:16 |
| +reinob | or if chemist could, via low_, send juiceme a kind of formal "resignation letter", then what eLtMosen says could apply, as we'd have a death and a resignation, both formal and documented. | 22:17 |
| +Oksanaa | Rally? https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57859 | 22:17 |
| +joerg | sounds good | 22:17 |
| @juiceme | I would like to get a volunteer for emergency board membership | 22:17 |
| +joerg | Oksanaa: could you please provide a summary? | 22:18 |
| +reinob | juiceme: I'm in, if needed. | 22:18 |
| +sicelo | ty reinob :) | 22:18 |
| +joerg | we're in a meeting, not going to read tmo posts, or this will take much longer than anybody can attend | 22:18 |
| eLtMosen | So, this is very much for my brain... | 22:18 |
| eLtMosen | https://www.vereinswelt.de/notvorstand-2 | 22:18 |
| +Oksanaa | joerg: chemist signed up for the rally as Team Muenchau-Schiller, Rallye München-Barcelona - Dein Roadtrip durch Europa. 23.07. – 30.07.2022 I München – Barcelona – Andalusien 24.09. – 01.10.2022 I München – Barcelona? | 22:18 |
| low_ | lol no. | 22:19 |
| @juiceme | reinob, thanks for help! | 22:19 |
| low_ | either way. chemist is gone for the better part of three years now. when was the last GA? | 22:20 |
| +sicelo | anyone else that would be able to step up for emergency board? | 22:20 |
| @juiceme | so if we decide to go that way that an emergency Board member is needed, then I will appint reinob | 22:20 |
| +joerg | too long ago. And this very one will also pass without anything getting done if we don't focus on the tasks at hand | 22:21 |
| @juiceme | unless there are other candidates...? | 22:21 |
| +halftux | I would also do it. But reinob is fine | 22:21 |
| +sicelo | or the two will be enough (juice & reinob). sounds fine too. i see the letter mentions two can represent the association | 22:21 |
| +sicelo | joerg: +1 | 22:21 |
| +joerg | sicelo: as I said above, I'm willing to help until stuff got sorted. Then I'm out | 22:21 |
| eLtMosen | It seems we need to establish formaly that we are currently incapacitated. | 22:22 |
| +joerg | why? | 22:22 |
| +sicelo | okay, thanks. so it seems we have the possibility of a full board (3+ candidates) to move things along in the interim | 22:22 |
| eLtMosen | In case of emergency borad establishment | 22:22 |
| +sicelo | eLtMosen: what does that involve/require? | 22:23 |
| +joerg | I asked for formal decision to establish that current board consists of only juiceme | 22:23 |
| +reinob | Should we first clarify that the next action is Jörg very kind offer to contact the Amtsgericht. AND WE TAKE IT FROM THERE? | 22:23 |
| +joerg | what about that, did that get rejected? | 22:23 |
| +Oksanaa | low_: Sorry. Post was from 2010 (didn't see it at first), so apparently it is old news and not relevant to current chemist's absence... | 22:23 |
| +sicelo | i understand joerg's offer is accepted and happening :-) | 22:23 |
| +reinob | joerg: +1 we can at least establish that the board is, currently, Juice alone. | 22:24 |
| +halftux | me too first calling then we see | 22:24 |
| eLtMosen | The first step is then to check whether the association is still capable of acting. That is, whether the remaining (residual) executive board is still capable of executing legal transactions. You can determine this with a quick look at the articles of association. There, it is mandatory to determine how and by whom the association is legally represented and who has the power of representation. | 22:24 |
| eLtMosen | So, we alreay established by finding out :D | 22:24 |
| +joerg | eLtMosen: what is the desired result? the issue at hand that gets solved this way? | 22:25 |
| +Oksanaa | The board is currently juiceme alone because one person is dead and another person is absent. Proofs for both of that would be nice. reinob could be elected today as second board member if required/possible, to support juiceme? | 22:25 |
| +joerg | there are no urgent legal transactions pending | 22:26 |
| low_ | so i just talked to chemist and he said that in the last GA joerg, juiceme and "the guy from Hamburg" were elected board members, but that never was officially filed to the court | 22:26 |
| low_ | Falk Stern? | 22:26 |
| +joerg | the only thing very urgently pending is to sort the issue with AG KL | 22:26 |
| +reinob | low_: yup must have been Falk Stern | 22:26 |
| @juiceme | yes falk aka warfare was the third one | 22:26 |
| +Oksanaa | Does sorting the issue with AG KL require two board members? | 22:26 |
| +joerg | Oksanaa: no | 22:27 |
| +sicelo | i think we're nearing the end of #4. in summary, we opted to not proceed with election yet, pending joerg's communication with them in next day or so. we have reinob and halftux as potential emergency candidates. | 22:27 |
| +joerg | again. I asked for formal decision to establish that current board consists of only juiceme - what about that? | 22:27 |
| +reinob | sicelo: sounds like a plan! :) | 22:27 |
| +Oksanaa | What about > If the association is unable to act because it does not have enough board members who are authorized to represent the association externally in accordance with Section 26 of the German Civil Code (BGB). < ? | 22:27 |
| +reinob | we don't need to "act" for now, we're just in low-power/maintenance mode for all I care | 22:28 |
| @juiceme | sicelo, as the chairman, state for the record what joerg just said: "formal decision to establish that current board consists of only juiceme" | 22:28 |
| +halftux | So joerg you would like to change that maemo eV has only one board member? | 22:28 |
| +halftux | for the future | 22:29 |
| +sicelo | ah, that's what he meant? :-) | 22:29 |
| @juiceme | we cannot "change" that as it is in the rules | 22:29 |
| +joerg | I'm not going to tell the lady of AG KL >>sorry, we decided to opt for eventually establishing an emergency board<< | 22:29 |
| +reinob | Nope, but say "the board has currently just one member", until further notice. | 22:29 |
| @juiceme | joerg, do you need more than that statement? | 22:29 |
| +joerg | no | 22:30 |
| @juiceme | good | 22:30 |
| +sicelo | okay. anyone objecting? i don't (in fact i fully agree) | 22:30 |
| +Oksanaa | joerg: Entirely possible to formally establish that current board consists of only juiceme. Just get proofs about one death and one absence/resignation (Rudiger Schiller). And perhaps, proofs about absence of Falk Stern and Joerg-not-being-member-of-board. | 22:30 |
| low_ | from last GA invitation: Secondly; As it happens Chemist (Rüdiger Schiller) who has been Chairman | 22:30 |
| low_ | of Board for the past years has decided to step down. | 22:30 |
| low_ | This means that we need to appoint a new board member in the meeting. | 22:30 |
| low_ | (and of course it is in the decision of GA to appoint/fire the members of | 22:30 |
| low_ | the board anyway, so board membership is always a subject of vote in GA | 22:30 |
| low_ | meeting) | 22:30 |
| eLtMosen | Joerg is right, the measures i cited would be needed if 1st chairman is missing. According to he linked article we can just fill the missing positions regulary. | 22:30 |
| +Oksanaa | I am just concerned about the kind of legal limbo that can happen if one board member is not enough. | 22:30 |
| +joerg | maybe a proof of chemist that he stepped down (lower priority since it seems AG KL already knows) and a link to the decease note for win | 22:30 |
| +reinob | joerg: only if they ask/insist, which I don't think will be the case. | 22:31 |
| +reinob | (no need to bother chemist, let alone win7mac's family) | 22:32 |
| +joerg | Oksanaa: >>And perhaps, proofs about absence of Falk Stern and Joerg-not-being-member-of-board<< not needed since bnever officially reported to AG KL | 22:32 |
| +sicelo | During the meeting held on the 10th Feb 2022, the general assembly formally established that the current board of directors consists of only one member, Jussi Ohenoja | 22:32 |
| +reinob | exactly | 22:32 |
| +joerg | reinob: full ack | 22:32 |
| -!- Fellfrosch [~darkstar@i59F4B6EC.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 22:32 | |
| +reinob | joerg: I take your ack, and give you a double ack. | 22:33 |
| +joerg | sicelo: thanks | 22:33 |
| +joerg | we should ehdule a next meeting already | 22:33 |
| @juiceme | have we handled this issue now enough? is there still something to discuss / decide? | 22:34 |
| +sicelo | anything else to iron out in #4 (board) ? seems to have been disuccessed at length | 22:34 |
| @juiceme | joerg +1 | 22:34 |
| +sicelo | ah :-) | 22:34 |
| +sicelo | so last agenda point #5 - AOB. | 22:34 |
| -!- Fellfrosch [~darkstar@i59F4B6EC.versanet.de] has joined #maemo-meeting | 22:34 | |
| +Oksanaa | When will we hear back about AG KL being okay-or-not-okay with juiceme being the only board member, and Chairman and Deputy-Chairman-aka-secretary having been elected? | 22:35 |
| +sicelo | the foregoing seems enough to help us with the AG KL issue? nothing else involved/urgent? | 22:35 |
| +joerg | afk for 10 min, need a break | 22:35 |
| @juiceme | I think Wizzup wanted to come up and present something about Leste, but he has not been here today? | 22:36 |
| +sicelo | Oksanaa: joerg hopes to do it tomorrow or early next week. so let's say mid-next week | 22:36 |
| eLtMosen | +1 | 22:36 |
| +sicelo | i can mention Leste | 22:36 |
| @juiceme | I will be iin contact with joerg about this issue | 22:36 |
| +reinob | ty juiceme. Keep me posted, if possible. I'm not a telephone guy (much less in German), but if needed I can also call there.. | 22:37 |
| +Oksanaa | As for AOB... | 22:38 |
| +sicelo | so yes, Maemo Leste *needs* the eV to remain intact as much as possible. they're rebasing maemo fremantle on modern devuan | 22:38 |
| @juiceme | well yes irc and email work also | 22:38 |
| +Oksanaa | Search function doesn't work on https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ? | 22:38 |
| +reinob | we need also to think/prepare for the next Maemo trademark renewal (2025?) | 22:38 |
| +sicelo | thus, dissolution ot the eV would be a blow for the Leste project. that said, it seems reasonable to 'adopt' the Leste project. | 22:39 |
| +halftux | wizzup was also planning to make a foundation | 22:39 |
| @juiceme | that depends on the country, the duration varies | 22:39 |
| +Oksanaa | So, when is next meeting? Should Maemo trademark renewal be added to agenda for next meeting? | 22:39 |
| +sicelo | they want to setup their own foundation, yes, but - maemo/nokia assets likely cannot be given to that association easily :) | 22:39 |
| +sicelo | but yes, maybe let's discuss all this in a second meeting | 22:40 |
| +halftux | ah ok | 22:40 |
| @juiceme | dissolution of eV is not good idea since we do have both intangible and tangible assets that need an owner | 22:40 |
| +reinob | right, today's topic was intense enough ;-) | 22:40 |
| +sicelo | at next meeting, may want/need to also look at council situation and decide a way forward | 22:40 |
| +sicelo | reinob: :-) | 22:40 |
| +sicelo | when can we schedule the next meeting then? | 22:41 |
| low_ | you MUST have a GA every year, and you have to file the minutes to the AG KL including changes to the board members. | 22:41 |
| +reinob | day of invitation + 4 weeks minimum, if I still understand what I read :) | 22:41 |
| +sicelo | however, depending on the answers from AG KL, it is reasonable to expect we may have to have another urgent meeting, maybe later next week ... | 22:42 |
| @juiceme | if we need to have a proper GA with full board and get this functioning again then we need the 1-month announcement time | 22:42 |
| @juiceme | I'd say lets wait for what happens next week | 22:43 |
| +halftux | low_ do you can organize the latest minutes with chemist which year was it | 22:43 |
| @juiceme | and have a new meeting then | 22:43 |
| +Oksanaa | So, let's schedule next meeting as early as possible. Do I understand correctly that it has to be at least a week after notice - so at least a week after this meeting? | 22:43 |
| +reinob | so regardless of potential urgent meeting (not GA), we can plan for a "proper GA" in a relaxed atmosphere :) | 22:43 |
| +sicelo | i agree with juiceme | 22:43 |
| @juiceme | oksanaa only if we want to have official meeting, and not something we organize things in | 22:44 |
| eLtMosen | Afaiu german officials. They want us to move. The 4 (3) weeks might be extendable when we show a plan for when the GA will happen. | 22:44 |
| @juiceme | so are we done for this meeting? | 22:45 |
| +reinob | I'd say yep | 22:45 |
| +Oksanaa | Agree. Good question to ask. "Please postpone the fine, let us have a proper GA meeting first" | 22:45 |
| +sicelo | seems we're done yes. | 22:45 |
| * Oksanaa nods | 22:45 | |
| @juiceme | thank you, mr. chairman! | 22:46 |
| +halftux | Thank you juiceme and sicelo and all others for there contributions | 22:46 |
| low_ | @halftux end of 2017 | 22:46 |
| +reinob | Oksanaa: they might (should!) drop the fine after the telephone call, GA or not.. | 22:46 |
| +halftux | ah ok these minutes we have | 22:46 |
| +sicelo | thanks all for the massive turn up! :-) | 22:46 |
| eLtMosen | Thanks sicelo! I will publish the minutes tomorrow noonish. | 22:46 |
| -!- rZr [~rzr@ynh.rzr.cloudns.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 22:46 | |
| low_ | there you will find that a new board had been elected, joerg, jussi, and falk | 22:47 |
| +reinob | Thanks guys! I didn't expect so many active members! :) | 22:47 |
| @juiceme | eLtMosen, feel free to ask me about the minutes if you have questions! | 22:47 |
| @juiceme | thank you everybody, and have a good night! | 22:47 |
| +halftux | https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=99918 | 22:47 |
| +reinob | and thanks low_ for popping in! | 22:47 |
| eLtMosen | +100 | 22:48 |
| +Oksanaa | low_: Apparently, they didn't quite accept their role as board members? Or something? | 22:48 |
| low_ | they did. it was just never officially filed to the court. | 22:48 |
| +Oksanaa | Accepted at the meeting where they were elected. Did they show up as board members on any next meeting? | 22:49 |
| +sicelo | they did, unless i'm very mistaken | 22:49 |
| +halftux | yes the minutes were delivered see my last link | 22:49 |
| * Oksanaa sighs - that's why I wonder if proof of absence/resignation would be required for some more people | 22:50 | |
| +halftux | hmm offical handed out but not proofed | 22:50 |
| low_ | the forums are irrelevant. it needs to be filed to court (AG KL) | 22:51 |
| -!- rzr [~rzr@ynh.rzr.cloudns.org] has joined #maemo-meeting | 22:51 | |
| +Oksanaa | Sorry for rambling. I tend to branch off into different what-ifs, like phantom trolleys: https://xkcd.com/1938/ | 22:52 |
| +macros__ | And are there plans for an invitation to the next GA so we can have functional board again? | 22:53 |
| +halftux | ok thanks you all and good night looking forward what joerg can achieve, thanks joerg. | 22:53 |
| +joerg | yw, Hope I manage to get this done | 22:53 |
| low_ | you will <3 | 22:53 |
| +joerg | seems we did _not_ agree on a soonish next meeting date? | 22:54 |
| +halftux | I guess juiceme will inform us all. | 22:54 |
| +joerg | macros__: we _have_ a functional board | 22:54 |
| nonsuch | Good night! | 22:55 |
| low_ | it's maybe smart to have that scheduled already when talking to the court, so they see you mean business | 22:55 |
| low_ | also kind regards from chemist | 22:55 |
| -!- nonsuch [~koivusaar@dk47dfyyyyyyyyyyyyyyt-3.rev.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:56 | |
| +sicelo | basically during the course of the next week we will know where we stand. if we need to do proper GA, then it's in 4 weeks | 22:56 |
| +sicelo | low_: thanks! :-) | 22:56 |
| +joerg | does anybody need the full irclog now? | 22:56 |
| +Oksanaa | eLtMosen ? | 22:57 |
| +macros__ | @joerg: What did I miss? We have one board member and need two to represent the e.V. according to the bylaws? Also the AG mentions this in their letter. | 22:57 |
| low_ | there is three board members. joerg, juiceme and falk | 22:57 |
| +macros__ | ah ok so we have two to report the current state, perfect :) | 22:58 |
| low_ | yes | 22:58 |
| +Oksanaa | Falk is not contactable, if I heard correctly? | 22:59 |
| +macros__ | Thats what I got too | 22:59 |
| +joerg | we have juiceme as regular board member, he decided to get help from $please-read-chanlog to accomplish anything where two board members are needed. No such thing known so far by now anyway | 22:59 |
| +joerg | all fine, don't worry | 23:00 |
| eLtMosen | Re log, i got an export from my hexchat. Thats fine. minute are near done but i better look over them with fresh eyes tmrw | 23:01 |
| +macros__ | Ok so thanks to everbody participating and helping to sort the situation. Especially joerg. | 23:03 |
| +joerg | http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/_maemo-meeting/2022-02-10.txt | 23:09 |
| low_ | thank you joerg | 23:18 |
| +joerg | macros__: actually you're right, for legal purposes the actually acting board members have to be registered at AG KL, that's what all the fuzz from AG KL is all about. So yes, *eventually* we want a new board correctly elected and ***registered at AG KL*** | 23:22 |
| +joerg | for now however we are absolutely fine with juiceme as single board member | 23:23 |
| low_ | so you stepped back? | 23:30 |
| +joerg | I never got registered at AG KL, so I'm not a member of board officially | 23:32 |
| +joerg | and I'm not going to push that now | 23:32 |
| low_ | you were elected in 2017, and accepted. | 23:33 |
| -!- gry [~gry@botters/gry] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 23:33 | |
| low_ | there's a record of that | 23:33 |
| +joerg | sorry, I'm out. Not interested in this argument | 23:33 |
| low_ | in the end that's defined in the bylaws. not an argument. | 23:40 |
| low_ | have a good night everyone. | 23:40 |
| -!- low_ [~Lov_d`Hir@ip4d141888.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 23:40 | |
| -!- Fellfrosch [~darkstar@i59F4B6EC.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] | 23:42 | |
| -!- halftux [~pi@i5E86285E.versanet.de] has left #maemo-meeting [] | 23:59 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.3 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!